W10 Recovery Partitions - minefield

[David]

A PC - W10 - that I support for a friend has started to fail a Windows
Update because the Recovery Partition is too small.

Much searching reveals that this is a feature(?) because Windows starts
out with a certain size of partition, and if that becomes too small then
it creates a larger partition.

My confusion comes from there being a 527MB Recovery Partition, which
reagentc /info shows as being in use.
So far so good - Windows should create another one.

However there is a second Recovery Partition of 10.56GB which goes from a
16MB gap after the first Recovery Partition right to the end of the disc.

No space to create a larger recovery partition, but what is this 10.56GB
partition there for?

Has anyone else seen this?

I can't find a direct report of this on line so far, but the night is
young.

My temptation at the moment is to delete the apparently inactive partition
and try the Windows Update again.

However I would like to know that the 10GB partition is not doing anything
vital.

Cheers


Dave R

[David]

Post by David
A PC - W10 - that I support for a friend has started to fail a Windows
Update because the Recovery Partition is too small.

<snip>

Microsoft instructions here - long URL

<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/kb5028997-instructions-to-
manually-resize-your-partition-to-install-the-winre-
update-400faa27-9343-461c-ada9-24c8229763bf>

It all looks very complicated and doesn't explain why you have to delete
and recreate the partition.
All sorts of tools will just shrink and extend partitions and this
normally works without having to tell the OS that things have changed.

Getting more baffled by the minute.

Cheers



Dave R

[Philip Herlihy]

Post by David

Post by David
A PC - W10 - that I support for a friend has started to fail a Windows
Update because the Recovery Partition is too small.

<snip>
Microsoft instructions here - long URL
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/kb5028997-instructions-to-
manually-resize-your-partition-to-install-the-winre-
update-400faa27-9343-461c-ada9-24c8229763bf>
It all looks very complicated and doesn't explain why you have to delete
and recreate the partition.
All sorts of tools will just shrink and extend partitions and this
normally works without having to tell the OS that things have changed.
Getting more baffled by the minute.

...

I've used those instructions and it worked for me. I can't explain why you
have to do it this way; I just took it on trust from MS. As I understand it
(backed up with a quick flick through Google) you can always delete "Recovery"
partitions but you lose the ability to Reset from within Windows. But as
you're re-creating a Recovery partition, that doesn't seem a problem.

Worst case? If the machine has ever run at all it'll be licensed and
activated, so just reinstall. Back up user data first (OneDrive?), and log any
application you may need to reinstall.

[David]

Post by Philip Herlihy

Post by David

Post by David
A PC - W10 - that I support for a friend has started to fail a
Windows Update because the Recovery Partition is too small.

<snip>
Microsoft instructions here - long URL
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/kb5028997-instructions-to-
manually-resize-your-partition-to-install-the-winre-
update-400faa27-9343-461c-ada9-24c8229763bf>
It all looks very complicated and doesn't explain why you have to
delete and recreate the partition.
All sorts of tools will just shrink and extend partitions and this
normally works without having to tell the OS that things have changed.
Getting more baffled by the minute.

...
I've used those instructions and it worked for me. I can't explain why
you have to do it this way; I just took it on trust from MS. As I
understand it (backed up with a quick flick through Google) you can
always delete "Recovery" partitions but you lose the ability to Reset
from within Windows. But as you're re-creating a Recovery partition,
that doesn't seem a problem.
Worst case? If the machine has ever run at all it'll be licensed and
activated, so just reinstall. Back up user data first (OneDrive?), and
log any application you may need to reinstall.

My tentative plan is to delete the second (non-active) Recovery Partition
of over 10 GB and then let Windows Update have a go at creating a new
larger one as per the script.

This should hopefully not impact the system as it already has an active
Recovery Partition which isn't quite big enough.

Cheers



Dave R

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

Post by David

Post by Philip Herlihy

Post by David

Post by David
A PC - W10 - that I support for a friend has started to fail a
Windows Update because the Recovery Partition is too small.

<snip>
Microsoft instructions here - long URL
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/kb5028997-instructions-to-> manually-resize-your-partition-to-install-the-winre-
update-400faa27-9343-461c-ada9-24c8229763bf>
It all looks very complicated and doesn't explain why you have to
delete and recreate the partition.
All sorts of tools will just shrink and extend partitions and this
normally works without having to tell the OS that things have changed.
Getting more baffled by the minute.

...
I've used those instructions and it worked for me. I can't explain why
you have to do it this way; I just took it on trust from MS. As I
understand it (backed up with a quick flick through Google) you can
always delete "Recovery" partitions but you lose the ability to Reset
from within Windows. But as you're re-creating a Recovery partition,
that doesn't seem a problem.
Worst case? If the machine has ever run at all it'll be licensed and
activated, so just reinstall. Back up user data first (OneDrive?), and
log any application you may need to reinstall.

My tentative plan is to delete the second (non-active) Recovery Partition
of over 10 GB and then let Windows Update have a go at creating a new
larger one as per the script.
This should hopefully not impact the system as it already has an active
Recovery Partition which isn't quite big enough.

Delete both so it can make a full size one. There's no additional risk,
the existing one can't be used so bin it.

There's zero benefit to having a recovery partition there anyway if
you're able to make a USB installer on another machine.

Cheers - Jaimie

[David]

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by David

Post by Philip Herlihy

Post by David

Post by David
A PC - W10 - that I support for a friend has started to fail a
Windows Update because the Recovery Partition is too small.

<snip>
Microsoft instructions here - long URL
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/kb5028997-instructions-to->
manually-resize-your-partition-to-install-the-winre-
update-400faa27-9343-461c-ada9-24c8229763bf>
It all looks very complicated and doesn't explain why you have to
delete and recreate the partition.
All sorts of tools will just shrink and extend partitions and this
normally works without having to tell the OS that things have changed.
Getting more baffled by the minute.

...
I've used those instructions and it worked for me. I can't explain
why you have to do it this way; I just took it on trust from MS. As I
understand it (backed up with a quick flick through Google) you can
always delete "Recovery" partitions but you lose the ability to Reset
from within Windows. But as you're re-creating a Recovery partition,
that doesn't seem a problem.
Worst case? If the machine has ever run at all it'll be licensed and
activated, so just reinstall. Back up user data first (OneDrive?),
and log any application you may need to reinstall.

My tentative plan is to delete the second (non-active) Recovery
Partition of over 10 GB and then let Windows Update have a go at
creating a new larger one as per the script.
This should hopefully not impact the system as it already has an active
Recovery Partition which isn't quite big enough.

Delete both so it can make a full size one. There's no additional risk,
the existing one can't be used so bin it.
There's zero benefit to having a recovery partition there anyway if
you're able to make a USB installer on another machine.
Cheers - Jaimie

Deleted the big one so there is 10GB free at the end of the disc.

Still refusing to install the update.

It looks as though Windows Update is broken.

I've done the usual sfc /scannow and this reported fixing some problems
but it now reports no problems and the update will still not work.

I may try the longhand command prompt process described up thread but lack
of space to create a new partition is not really an issue now.

If I just turn off restore (part of the command prompt process) I wonder
if that will allow the updates to proceed?

Cheers



Dave R

[Philip Herlihy]

Post by David

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Delete both so it can make a full size one. There's no additional risk,
the existing one can't be used so bin it.
There's zero benefit to having a recovery partition there anyway if
you're able to make a USB installer on another machine.
Cheers - Jaimie

Deleted the big one so there is 10GB free at the end of the disc.
Still refusing to install the update.
It looks as though Windows Update is broken.
I've done the usual sfc /scannow and this reported fixing some problems
but it now reports no problems and the update will still not work.
I may try the longhand command prompt process described up thread but lack
of space to create a new partition is not really an issue now.
If I just turn off restore (part of the command prompt process) I wonder
if that will allow the updates to proceed?

(Jaimie's smarter than me, so always believe him rather than me!)

A couple of observations:

SFC rarely worked for me until I discovered the DISM command, which can repair
the repository from which SFC gets its "spares". See:
https://adamtheautomator.com/dism-cleanup-image/
That article is very comprehensive; it's easier than it seems. Essentially:
Scan using DISM to see if the 'store' is healthy.
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth
If it is, then run SFC.
If it isn't, then fix it using:
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth. If that works, then run SFC.
If the /RestoreHealth errors, you'll need to download an ISO, mount it, and use
that to repair the store - details are in the article.

I did follow the "longhand command prompt process" described up thread. I
found I _really_ had to concentrate - it's very easy to make mistakes. After a
near-disaster I copied the steps into OneNote (Word will do fine) and colour-
coded it all, emphasising the parameters. That made it easier to follow! I
had to disable Bitlocker to get one of the steps (delete the existing active
Recovery partition, if I remember correctly) so check if Bitlocker is enabled -
I was surprised to find it was, apparently out-of-the-box on the friend's
machine I was working on.

Bitlocker reference:
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/operating-system-
security/data-protection/bitlocker/operations-guide?tabs=powershell

Bitlocker commands I used:
List:
manage-bde.exe -protectors -get C:
Suspend:
manage-bde.exe -protectors -disable C:
Resume:
manage-bde.exe -protectors -enable C:

Hope that helps.

I am astonished that ordinary users are expected to jump through these hoops to
get an update to work. What are they thinking of...?

[David]

Post by Philip Herlihy

Post by David

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Delete both so it can make a full size one. There's no additional risk,
the existing one can't be used so bin it.
There's zero benefit to having a recovery partition there anyway if
you're able to make a USB installer on another machine.
Cheers - Jaimie

Deleted the big one so there is 10GB free at the end of the disc.
Still refusing to install the update.
It looks as though Windows Update is broken.
I've done the usual sfc /scannow and this reported fixing some problems
but it now reports no problems and the update will still not work.
I may try the longhand command prompt process described up thread but
lack of space to create a new partition is not really an issue now.
If I just turn off restore (part of the command prompt process) I
wonder if that will allow the updates to proceed?

(Jaimie's smarter than me, so always believe him rather than me!)
SFC rarely worked for me until I discovered the DISM command, which can
https://adamtheautomator.com/dism-cleanup-image/
That article is very comprehensive; it's easier than it seems.
Essentially: Scan using DISM to see if the 'store' is healthy.
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth If it is, then run SFC.
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth. If that works, then run SFC.
If the /RestoreHealth errors, you'll need to download an ISO, mount it,
and use that to repair the store - details are in the article.
I did follow the "longhand command prompt process" described up thread.
I found I _really_ had to concentrate - it's very easy to make mistakes.
After a near-disaster I copied the steps into OneNote (Word will do
fine) and colour- coded it all, emphasising the parameters. That made
it easier to follow! I had to disable Bitlocker to get one of the steps
(delete the existing active Recovery partition, if I remember correctly)
so check if Bitlocker is enabled -
I was surprised to find it was, apparently out-of-the-box on the
friend's machine I was working on.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/operating-system-
security/data-protection/bitlocker/operations-guide?tabs=powershell
Hope that helps.
I am astonished that ordinary users are expected to jump through these
hoops to get an update to work. What are they thinking of...?

sfc /scannow, after initially reporting a fix, now runs cleanly.


I found the DISM command and ran that, followed by another sfc /scannow
which was also clean.
AFAIK I went straight to the /RestoreHealth.

Bitlocker isn't (as far as I am aware) enabled.


I have done all the logical things apart from doing the long hand script,
including turning recovery off and on, but in theory I shouldn't need to.
According to my reading if there is not enough space a larger recovery
partition should be created, and you only need to shrink C: to make room
if the disc is full.

As you say, the full script is daunting (especially getting some of the
long partition names correct) and I am bracing myself for that.

Thanks



Dave R

[Philip Herlihy]

Post by David
As you say, the full script is daunting (especially getting some of the
long partition names correct) and I am bracing myself for that.

Copy and paste is your friend here! Good luck!

[David]

Post by Philip Herlihy

Post by David
As you say, the full script is daunting (especially getting some of the
long partition names correct) and I am bracing myself for that.

Copy and paste is your friend here! Good luck!

Many thanks for the help so far.

Falling at almost the first hurdle, though.

<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/kb5028997-instructions-to-
manually-resize-your-partition-to-install-the-winre-
update-400faa27-9343-461c-ada9-24c8229763bf>

"First, check if the disk partition style is a GUID Partition Table (GPT)
or a Master Boot Record (MBR).

To do that, run list disk.

Check if there is an asterisk character (*) in the “Gpt” column. If there
is an asterisk character (*), then the drive is GPT. Otherwise, the drive
is MBR."

However:

"C:\WINDOWS\system32>list disk
'list' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file."

Ah!
A command for within diskpart.

[Note to self, when developing instructions on your own computer for
another computer, be very careful not to run any!!]

Pause at this point as the machine under therapy is almost out of hard
drive space.
I glanced at the numbers and saw a 167 and assumed GB but it is MB.

I will clear that issue by extending the C: partition, after first
recovering the Restore partition, and then get on with recreating stuff.

I am so out of practice at this stuff!

Cheers



Dave R

[David]

Post by David

Post by Philip Herlihy

Post by David
As you say, the full script is daunting (especially getting some of
the long partition names correct) and I am bracing myself for that.

Copy and paste is your friend here! Good luck!

Many thanks for the help so far.
Falling at almost the first hurdle, though.
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/kb5028997-instructions-to-
manually-resize-your-partition-to-install-the-winre-
update-400faa27-9343-461c-ada9-24c8229763bf>
"First, check if the disk partition style is a GUID Partition Table (GPT)
or a Master Boot Record (MBR).
To do that, run list disk.
Check if there is an asterisk character (*) in the “Gpt” column. If
there is an asterisk character (*), then the drive is GPT. Otherwise,
the drive is MBR."
"C:\WINDOWS\system32>list disk 'list' is not recognized as an internal
or external command,
operable program or batch file."
Ah!
A command for within diskpart.
[Note to self, when developing instructions on your own computer for
another computer, be very careful not to run any!!]
Pause at this point as the machine under therapy is almost out of hard
drive space.
I glanced at the numbers and saw a 167 and assumed GB but it is MB.
I will clear that issue by extending the C: partition, after first
recovering the Restore partition, and then get on with recreating stuff.
I am so out of practice at this stuff!

Phew!

Deleted the Restore Partition, extended the C: drive leaving about 1.2 GB
free space at the end.
Cut and pasted the commands to recreate the Recovery Partition which all
worked, although the very long hex strings are still gibberish to me.
Arcane magic.
Checked and all seemed well - Recovery Partition where it should be and
showing as an active Recovery Partition.

Retried the Windows Update and everything worked!

I've just fed the Service Tag of this Dell laptop into the Dell support
website and support expired on 9th March 2017.
So presumably bought around 9th March 2016, if one year warranty.

This is probably nearing the end of its useful life (although still
capable of doing what is required) so I shall need to brief about
budgeting for an upgrade towards the end of 2025.

Also needs some SSD space freeing up ($DEITY alone knows what cruft is
hiding in there).

Anyway sorted at last and due to go back to the owner soon.

Thanks to all for the help.

Cheers



Dave R

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On 31 May 2024 at 20:51:35 BST, "Philip Herlihy"

Post by Philip Herlihy
(Jaimie's smarter than me, so always believe him rather than me!)

I don't feel it :D And you've far more modern Windows stuff in your head
than me!

Cheers - Jaimie