Email Error

[Jeff Gaines]

I am getting an error in sending emails from my own domain address but via
my ISP's server:

[SMTP] Cannot send message (Sending email "Re[2]: xxx" failed with error:
Email body not accepted due to the following reason:
"5.7.1 <END-OF-MESSAGE>: End-of-data rejected: SPF Incorrect
")

Any clues on where the error might be occurring based on:

My ISP is PlusNet.
I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet (I have no idea how that
works)
I use em Client which has recently been upgraded.

It went successfully using my outlook.com address from the same email
client, where do I start looking first?

[Fredxx]

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am getting an error in sending emails from my own domain address but
[SMTP] Cannot send message (Sending email "Re[2]: xxx" failed with
    "5.7.1 <END-OF-MESSAGE>: End-of-data rejected: SPF Incorrect
")
My ISP is PlusNet.
I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet (I have no idea how that
works)
I use em Client which has recently been upgraded.
It went successfully using my outlook.com address from the same email
client, where do I start looking first?

Can you check using:
https://mxtoolbox.com/spf.aspx

If a problem I would suggest modifying your hosting service to add the
SPF record to your domain?

[Andy Burns]

"5.7.1 <END-OF-MESSAGE>: End-of-data rejected: SPF Incorrect")
I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet

You need an SPF record in the DNS for your domain, speak to whoever
hosts your domain.

e.g. here is what I use for my domain to allow sending via plusnet's servers

v=spf1 a mx include:_spf-internal.plus.net
include:_spf-internal2.plus.net ~all

[HVS]

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am getting an error in sending emails from my own domain address
[SMTP] Cannot send message (Sending email "Re[2]: xxx" failed with
"5.7.1 <END-OF-MESSAGE>: End-of-data rejected: SPF Incorrect
")
My ISP is PlusNet.
I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet (I have no idea how
that works)
I use em Client which has recently been upgraded.
It went successfully using my outlook.com address from the same
email client, where do I start looking first?

Not sure, but are the emails apparently originating from your own
domain or email address?

I've been plagued for the past couple of months with phishing emails
that present themselves as coming from my domain email manager, and
spoof the "from" field to make it look as if they're coming from my
own address and domain. The claim is that my message storage space
is full or my message volume limit has been reached, and trying to
get me to click on a link to change my login details.

It's all nonsense, but the annoying thing is that since the spoofed
"from" address makes it appear that the emails originate from my own
domain, I haven't wanted to block them as spam in case the filter
just looks at the apparent address and I wind up blocking myself.

So I've just been manually deleting them, as I'm not sure how to
safely block them automatically.

Annoying.

[Andy Burns]

Post by HVS

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am getting an error in sending emails from my own domain address

Not sure, but are the emails apparently originating from your own
domain or email address?

He's not having problems with received email, but he's being blocked
from sending.

Post by HVS
I've been plagued for the past couple of months with phishing emails
that present themselves as coming from my domain email manager, and
spoof the "from" field to make it look as if they're coming from my
own address and domain. The claim is that my message storage space
is full or my message volume limit has been reached, and trying to
get me to click on a link to change my login details.
It's all nonsense, but the annoying thing is that since the spoofed
"from" address makes it appear that the emails originate from my own
domain, I haven't wanted to block them as spam in case the filter
just looks at the apparent address and I wind up blocking myself.
So I've just been manually deleting them, as I'm not sure how to
safely block them automatically.

If you have your own domain, you should set an SPF record that lists the
servers authorised to send on your behalf, that should make it easier
for emails from unauthorised servers to be rejected.

[HVS]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by HVS

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am getting an error in sending emails from my own domain

Not sure, but are the emails apparently originating from your own
domain or email address?

He's not having problems with received email, but he's being
blocked from sending.

Post by HVS
I've been plagued for the past couple of months with phishing
emails that present themselves as coming from my domain email
manager, and spoof the "from" field to make it look as if they're
coming from my own address and domain. The claim is that my
message storage space is full or my message volume limit has been
reached, and trying to get me to click on a link to change my
login details.
It's all nonsense, but the annoying thing is that since the
spoofed "from" address makes it appear that the emails originate
from my own domain, I haven't wanted to block them as spam in
case the filter just looks at the apparent address and I wind up
blocking myself.
So I've just been manually deleting them, as I'm not sure how to
safely block them automatically.

If you have your own domain, you should set an SPF record that
lists the servers authorised to send on your behalf, that should
make it easier for emails from unauthorised servers to be
rejected.

Thanks; I'll look into that.

[Alan J. Wylie]

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am getting an error in sending emails from my own domain address but

...

Post by Jeff Gaines
My ISP is PlusNet.

Are you sending it to connect to Plusnet's port 25 (SMTP), 465 (Secure
SMTP) or 587 (submission) on their server "relay.plus.net"?

https://www.plus.net/help/email-guides/how-to-set-up-plusnet-email/

Port 25 is the general mail transfer port, 465 and 587 require
authentication, which might bypass SPF checks.

When you say "my own domain address" do you mean a personal domain such
as my "wylie.me.uk".

If so, do you have an SPF and DMARC record set in DNS, and are you signing
your outgoing emails with DKIM? If not, you will have serious
deliverability issues to e.g. Google. DKIM requires that the domain used
in your email address matches that used for the signing key.

$ dig +short -t txt wylie.me.uk
"v=spf1 mx a -all"

$ dig +short -t txt _dmarc.wylie.me.uk
"v=DMARC1; p=none; rua=mailto:***@wylie.me.uk"

$ dig +short -t txt mydkim006._domainkey.wylie.me.uk
"v=DKIM1; k=rsa; p=MIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAu2Ut003KeaCrfWe5woqHoWuPYvV4AKeI8ytzn0ddam1BiRO1QUGpTzhdYiXASdhjxkFetoFF1BeRmE8kqbaDNK8ttPWa7fOvqtR+kluBs9rRvomWj8eFZcxsXABLYs6gQSNvuxDZipA2wL/FPaAOEw/pOCAQ70say4/ww8JZMqMde9pfKp0obNwOudzL" "jLgSXQaWAOXcNOMy+ai8WulUOdoAxbGhHdpFSLeOOZYQqzV/Tm6kDhOtGWBSzf+dR/hhelRd0A4VvA20laRMdVhMnLbiZycMTB7wWAojPHixQSHj3w0djiNzm41/J/j1ypQbEouBb2P+RE0El4CSvyVgcwIDAQAB"

[Andy Burns]

Post by Alan J. Wylie
If so, do you have an SPF and DMARC record set in DNS, and are you signing
your outgoing emails with DKIM? If not, you will have serious
deliverability issues

I think you're stating it a little too strongly, implying that all three
of SPF, DKIM and DMARC are required.

Certainly email services have rightly been getting stricter in their
requirements, but in general either SPF or DKIM will see mail accepted,
provided that everything matches, and for most users SPF is easiest to
organise.

[Alan J. Wylie]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Alan J. Wylie
If so, do you have an SPF and DMARC record set in DNS, and are you signing
your outgoing emails with DKIM? If not, you will have serious
deliverability issues

I think you're stating it a little too strongly, implying that all
three of SPF, DKIM and DMARC are required.
Certainly email services have rightly been getting stricter in their
requirements, but in general either SPF or DKIM will see mail
accepted, provided that everything matches, and for most users SPF is
easiest to organise.

I run a mailing list for my mountaineering club. Previously, mail was
delivered fine with the From: address being that of the sender, no DMARC
record and any DKIM signature being the original one from the senders
mail provider. At the end of December, Outlook, Yahoo, Tiscali/OXCS and
VirginMedia started rejecting mails due to DMARC failures. I've had to
set up a DMARC record for the club's domain, ensure that any original
DKIM signature is removed and one with the club's signature added.

Only today did I solve the problem that there was now no indication of
who sent emails to the list, unless the sender added their name in the
body. mlmmj (the mailing list software I use) only added that facility
last week, with a comment about DMARC.

The big email services are definitely getting stricter

[Andy Burns]

Post by Alan J. Wylie
I run a mailing list for my mountaineering club. Previously, mail was
delivered fine with the From: address being that of the sender, no DMARC
record and any DKIM signature being the original one from the senders
mail provider.

Yes, mailing lists, dkim, dmarc, address re-writing ... all add to the fun!

[John Rumm]

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am getting an error in sending emails from my own domain address but
[SMTP] Cannot send message (Sending email "Re[2]: xxx" failed with
    "5.7.1 <END-OF-MESSAGE>: End-of-data rejected: SPF Incorrect
")
My ISP is PlusNet.
I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet (I have no idea how that
works)
I use em Client which has recently been upgraded.
It went successfully using my outlook.com address from the same email
client, where do I start looking first?

The Sender Policy Framework (SPF) mechanism is a way that a domain can
advertise which SMTP servers will legitimately handle sending email for
a domain. It allows (among other things) the receiver to make an
estimation of how it is that a email is coming from a legit server. If
the originating SMTP server does not match that indicated in the SPF
record, then it is more likely that it is a spoof. Absence of a SPF
record (or an incorrect record) make it harder to get your email delivered.

I seem to recall plusnet tightened up on mail verification some time
back, and hence may be verifying that senders have a proper SPF record.

To see if you have a SPF record, open a command prompt, and enter:

nslookup -type=txt <yourdomainname>

You should have a txt record that looks like:

"v=spf1 include:_spf-internal.plus.net include:_spf-internal2.plus.net ~all"

That tells any server processing your email to lookup the server
addresses pull in the list of IP addresses contained in text records
attached to those two plusnet sub domains.

So if you *don't* see a record like that you need to add one in the DNS
management control panel of your domain registrar.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by John Rumm

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am getting an error in sending emails from my own domain address but
    "5.7.1 <END-OF-MESSAGE>: End-of-data rejected: SPF Incorrect
")
My ISP is PlusNet.
I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet (I have no idea how that
works)
I use em Client which has recently been upgraded.
It went successfully using my outlook.com address from the same email
client, where do I start looking first?

The Sender Policy Framework (SPF) mechanism is a way that a domain can
advertise which SMTP servers will legitimately handle sending email for a
domain. It allows (among other things) the receiver to make an estimation
of how it is that a email is coming from a legit server. If the
originating SMTP server does not match that indicated in the SPF record,
then it is more likely that it is a spoof. Absence of a SPF record (or an
incorrect record) make it harder to get your email delivered.
I seem to recall plusnet tightened up on mail verification some time back,
and hence may be verifying that senders have a proper SPF record.
nslookup -type=txt <yourdomainname>
"v=spf1 include:_spf-internal.plus.net include:_spf-internal2.plus.net ~all"
That tells any server processing your email to lookup the server addresses
pull in the list of IP addresses contained in text records attached to
those two plusnet sub domains.
So if you don't see a record like that you need to add one in the DNS
management control panel of your domain registrar.

Many thanks John :-)

I have found that email, it said:

"If your nameservers are managed by Heart Internet, there’s no need to
take any action - our team has already made the necessary updates for you."

So I ignored it.

However from following your advice it seems I have no SPF record so I
followed Heart's instructions which say "Log in to your Domain Control
Panel and navigate to ‘DNS Management’.

There is no "DNS Management" to navigate to!

I will raise a ticket with them. Their admin is appalling but when I tried
to move away it seemed I had to set up my own records at Mythic Beasts and
that was way beyond me.

Thanks again.

[John Rumm]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by John Rumm

Post by Jeff Gaines
I am getting an error in sending emails from my own domain address
[SMTP] Cannot send message (Sending email "Re[2]: xxx" failed with
    "5.7.1 <END-OF-MESSAGE>: End-of-data rejected: SPF Incorrect
")
My ISP is PlusNet.
I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet (I have no idea how
that works)
I use em Client which has recently been upgraded.
It went successfully using my outlook.com address from the same email
client, where do I start looking first?

The Sender Policy Framework (SPF) mechanism is a way that a domain can
advertise which SMTP servers will legitimately handle sending email
for a domain. It allows (among other things) the receiver to make an
estimation of how it is that a email is coming from a legit server. If
the originating SMTP server does not match that indicated in the SPF
record, then it is more likely that it is a spoof. Absence of a SPF
record (or an incorrect record) make it harder to get your email delivered.
I seem to recall plusnet tightened up on mail verification some time
back, and hence may be verifying that senders have a proper SPF record.
nslookup -type=txt <yourdomainname>
"v=spf1 include:_spf-internal.plus.net include:_spf-internal2.plus.net ~all"
That tells any server processing your email to lookup the server
addresses pull in the list of IP addresses contained in text records
attached to those two plusnet sub domains.
So if you don't see a record like that you need to add one in the DNS
management control panel of your domain registrar.

Many thanks John :-)
"If your nameservers are managed by Heart Internet, there’s no need to
take any action - our team has already made the necessary updates for you."
So I ignored it.

They might be assuming that if they are managing the name servers they
are also hosting the mailbox, and hence they can put two and two
together and do that.

If you have mail hosted elsewhere, it seems unlikely they could do it
(right!) automatically.

Post by Jeff Gaines
However from following your advice it seems I have no SPF record so I
followed Heart's instructions which say "Log in to your Domain Control
Panel and navigate to ‘DNS Management’.
There is no "DNS Management" to navigate to!

:-)

It is there somewhere since I had to make DNS changes for a customer on
heart a couple of years ago. I don't think I have a valid login for them
now, so can't go find it.

Post by Jeff Gaines
I will raise a ticket with them. Their admin is appalling but when I
tried to move away it seemed I had to set up my own records at Mythic
Beasts and that was way beyond me.

Might be worth me doing a wiki page on DIY email setups by the sounds of
it.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by John Rumm
Might be worth me doing a wiki page on DIY email setups by the sounds of
it.

Oh god, yes please, make sure it has a beginners' section for me!

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by John Rumm
Might be worth me doing a wiki page on DIY email setups by the sounds of
it.

Oh god, yes please, make sure it has a beginners' section for me!

Follow up.

Heart replied to the ticket within 10 minutes and said they would set up
default SPF records so I think I was right in believing they should have
done this.

One domain is now fine, I suspect they only answered the first point so I
have jogged them that there are two domains affected.

[John Rumm]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by John Rumm
Might be worth me doing a wiki page on DIY email setups by the sounds
of it.

Oh god, yes please, make sure it has a beginners' section for me!

Follow up.
Heart replied to the ticket within 10 minutes and said they would set up
default SPF records so I think I was right in believing they should have
done this.

I can imagine that they might setup a SPF record to include their mail
servers in the list of advertised ones, but I would not expect them to
include the plusnet servers unless you explicitly asked them to?

Post by Jeff Gaines
One domain is now fine, I suspect they only answered the first point so
I have jogged them that there are two domains affected.

(I have started an article on DIY mail server configuration and setup -
but not ready yet)
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Daniel James]

I will raise a ticket with [Heart]. Their admin is appalling but when I tried to move away it seemed I had to set up my own records at Mythic Beasts and that was way beyond me.

Setting up SPF for your domain hosted on Heart will be similar if you
don't use the EMail provided by Heart. If you don't use Heart's EMail
servers they don't know whose servers you do use, so they can't set SPF
up automatically for your domain.

It's really up to the people whose servers you do use to tell you what
to use to identify their mail servers, and up to the hosting company to
tell you how to put that into an SPF record on their DNS.

I find the help on Mythic Beasts's website very good, and their support
people are very helpful and responsive when the help isn't quite enough.
If you use Mythic Beasts for both mail and domain hosting then setting
up SPF and DKIM are one-click operations, if you don't then you have to
do a little work, but they do tell you what you need to do.

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by Daniel James

I will raise a ticket with [Heart]. Their admin is appalling but when I
tried to move away it seemed I had to set up my own records at Mythic
Beasts and that was way beyond me.

Setting up SPF for your domain hosted on Heart will be similar if you
don't use the EMail provided by Heart. If you don't use Heart's EMail
servers they don't know whose servers you do use, so they can't set SPF up
automatically for your domain.
It's really up to the people whose servers you do use to tell you what to
use to identify their mail servers, and up to the hosting company to tell
you how to put that into an SPF record on their DNS.
I find the help on Mythic Beasts's website very good, and their support
people are very helpful and responsive when the help isn't quite enough.
If you use Mythic Beasts for both mail and domain hosting then setting up
SPF and DKIM are one-click operations, if you don't then you have to do a
little work, but they do tell you what you need to do.

I must admit I find it very confusing working out who does what!

Plusnet is my ISP, I only use their email address for correspondence with
them.

I have 2 x domains hosted with Heart but my email client is set up to log
on to the Heart servers so although I send email from my email program I
think Plusnet only connects me to the Internet, Heart does all the
addressing stuff.

I have 1 x domain hosted with Mythic Beasts same set up as for the Heart
domains except it has never missed a beat!

I also have 4 x outlook.com addresses and 1 x Gmail, also set up as above,
never a problem except MSFT asks me to re-affirm my details now and then.

I had 2 x Yahoo emails but they change their sign on process so often I
cancelled them, not worth the effort.

[John Rumm]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Daniel James

I will raise a ticket with [Heart]. Their admin is appalling but when
I tried to move away it seemed I had to set up my own records at
Mythic Beasts and that was way beyond me.

Setting up SPF for your domain hosted on Heart will be similar if you
don't use the EMail provided by Heart. If you don't use Heart's EMail
servers they don't know whose servers you do use, so they can't set
SPF up automatically for your domain.
It's really up to the people whose servers you do use to tell you what
to use to identify their mail servers, and up to the hosting company
to tell you how to put that into an SPF record on their DNS.
I find the help on Mythic Beasts's website very good, and their
support people are very helpful and responsive when the help isn't
quite enough. If you use Mythic Beasts for both mail and domain
hosting then setting up SPF and DKIM are one-click operations, if you
don't then you have to do a little work, but they do tell you what you
need to do.

I must admit I find it very confusing working out who does what!

Yup it can get confusing...

Post by Jeff Gaines
Plusnet is my ISP, I only use their email address for correspondence
with them.
I have 2 x domains hosted with Heart but my email client is set up to
log on to the Heart servers so although I send email from my email
program I think Plusnet only connects me to the Internet, Heart does all
the addressing stuff.

Earlier I got the impression that you might be trying to send mail for
your domain via the plusnet mail server (you did say "I am getting an
error in sending emails from my own domain address but via my ISP's
server"). You might have been able to get that to work in the past, but
plusnet would likely block it now.

However connecting to the mail servers that belong to the actual host of
your mailbox is the proper way to do it. In that case, all plusnet is
doing is providing the connection and play no further part in it.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by John Rumm

Post by Jeff Gaines
I must admit I find it very confusing working out who does what!

Yup it can get confusing...

Post by Jeff Gaines
Plusnet is my ISP, I only use their email address for correspondence with
them.
I have 2 x domains hosted with Heart but my email client is set up to log
on to the Heart servers so although I send email from my email program I
think Plusnet only connects me to the Internet, Heart does all the
addressing stuff.

Earlier I got the impression that you might be trying to send mail for
your domain via the plusnet mail server (you did say "I am getting an
error in sending emails from my own domain address but via my ISP's
server"). You might have been able to get that to work in the past, but
plusnet would likely block it now.
However connecting to the mail servers that belong to the actual host of
your mailbox is the proper way to do it. In that case, all plusnet is
doing is providing the connection and play no further part in it.

Good to know I am doing it properly even if I didn't know what I was doing!

Heart's original email said:

"At Heart Internet, we’re always investing in improvements to give our
customers the best possible experience. As part of this commitment,
we’ve partnered with a new mail provider, Soverin, to enhance email
reliability and deliverability.

To support this change, we’ve updated the SPF (Sender Policy Framework)
records required for sending emails through our servers.

To ensure your emails continue to deliver successfully, please review and
update your SPF record based on the instructions below.

If your nameservers are managed by Heart Internet, there’s no need to
take any action - our team has already made the necessary updates for you."

I decided that meant I didn't need to take any action and I suspect I was
right, just for some reason Heart didn't do what it said it would.

Look forward to the blog on the subject :-)

[John Rumm]

Post by Jeff Gaines
Look forward to the blog on the subject :-)

Here is an early draft:

https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/DIY_Email_setup

It might err on the side of too much detail (drink from a firehose anyone?)

It could certainly use plenty of extra examples - and perhaps some
screen shots from popular DNS management pages and email configuration
pages etc.

Perhaps it could include tables of common SPF records for popular mail
systems etc?
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Alan J. Wylie]

Post by John Rumm
https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/DIY_Email_setup

s/"***@rapidplumbers.com"/"***@rapidplumbers.com"/

[John Rumm]

Post by John Rumm
https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/DIY_Email_setup

Lol - well spotted - I had to read that several times to spot the
problem.... all the right number of vowels, but the brain skipped over
the n each time.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by John Rumm

Post by Jeff Gaines
Look forward to the blog on the subject :-)

https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/DIY_Email_setup
It might err on the side of too much detail (drink from a firehose anyone?)
It could certainly use plenty of extra examples - and perhaps some screen
shots from popular DNS management pages and email configuration pages etc.
Perhaps it could include tables of common SPF records for popular mail
systems etc?

Looks good, will have a study over the weekend, you're a fast writer :-)

[Bob Eager]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by John Rumm

Post by Jeff Gaines
Look forward to the blog on the subject :-)

https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/DIY_Email_setup
It might err on the side of too much detail (drink from a firehose anyone?)
It could certainly use plenty of extra examples - and perhaps some
screen shots from popular DNS management pages and email configuration
pages etc.
Perhaps it could include tables of common SPF records for popular mail
systems etc?

Looks good, will have a study over the weekend, you're a fast writer :-)

For those who want to get serious about email (and not many will) I can
recommend this book. The author is excellent.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1642350788

There is also an ebook but you have to get that direct from Tilted
Windmill Press.

(Disclosure: I was one of the sponsors; I got a special limited edition:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/qcbpYzX1yqweUNtw8
)

[Jethro_uk]

Post by Bob Eager

[quoted text muted]

For those who want to get serious about email

I wouldn't bother ... it seems 95% of the world still runs on phone
numbers. Makes me wonder wtf I wasted my life swallowing the RFCs.

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by John Rumm

Post by Jeff Gaines
Look forward to the blog on the subject :-)

https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/DIY_Email_setup
It might err on the side of too much detail (drink from a firehose anyone?)
It could certainly use plenty of extra examples - and perhaps some screen
shots from popular DNS management pages and email configuration pages etc.
Perhaps it could include tables of common SPF records for popular mail
systems etc?

I have now read this in more depth, many thanks for all the work you have
put in!

Is it possible to break down/analyse an email address e.g.

Email address: ***@rapidplumbers.com

The elements of the address are:

I don't know the technical bits but name, @ sign, domain etc. - it might
make it easier for people task better questions rather than fumbling along
like I did.

Something I have seen but don't know how it works like the ability to ad
+nnn to the name.

From memory of playing with Slackware (30 years ago) overcoming Linux
smarts to ensure an email is sent externally, I think it involved a '%'
sign?


I'm sure you can tell from this how much I need the Wiki page :-)

[John Rumm]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by John Rumm

Post by Jeff Gaines
Look forward to the blog on the subject :-)

https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/DIY_Email_setup
It might err on the side of too much detail (drink from a firehose anyone?)
It could certainly use plenty of extra examples - and perhaps some
screen shots from popular DNS management pages and email configuration
pages etc.
Perhaps it could include tables of common SPF records for popular mail
systems etc?

I have now read this in more depth, many thanks for all the work you
have put in!
Is it possible to break down/analyse an email address e.g.
make it easier for people task better questions rather than fumbling
along like I did.

I have added a side box with some details of how the domain bit can be
used or not with ISP email provisions depending whether they let you use
subdomains.

Post by Jeff Gaines
Something I have seen but don't know how it works like the ability to ad
+nnn to the name.

You sometimes see that kind of thing used when configuring email as a
way of naming mailboxes that belong to one customer, but are tied to
multiple email addresses.

So with plusnet for example they give you a "catch all" style mail setup
- so all mail sent to any address on your username gets delivered to the
same mailbox. To collect mail you have your mail software login with a
username that just matches the account name. So say your account was
"artichoke" you would login to mail.plus.net with the username
"artichoke". They also create a "catch all" mail setup by default. So
you could advertise the email addresses "***@artichoke.plus.net" and
"***@artichoke.plus.net". However both addresses would receive email
and that would all go to the one mailbox.

If you want you can configure multiple mailboxes so they go to their own
mailbox. When configuring your mail software you then need to manipulate
the login username to identify which mailbox you want if you don't want
the catch all one. So you would have your email client login with
"artichoke+sales" or "artichoke+jeff"

Other mail systems also have some foibles... like gmail will allow the
insertion of a "." in an email address anywhere you like. So
***@gmail.com and ***@gmail.com are to gmail, the same user
(even though to the outside world, they are different email addresses)

Post by Jeff Gaines
From memory of playing with Slackware (30 years ago) overcoming Linux
smarts to ensure an email is sent externally, I think it involved a '%'
sign?
I'm sure you can tell from this how much I need the Wiki page :-)

Let me know if you want more stiff expanded in what is there so far.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Gordon]

Post by John Rumm

Post by Jeff Gaines
Look forward to the blog on the subject :-)

https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/DIY_Email_setup
It might err on the side of too much detail (drink from a firehose anyone?)
It could certainly use plenty of extra examples - and perhaps some
screen shots from popular DNS management pages and email configuration
pages etc.
Perhaps it could include tables of common SPF records for popular mail
systems etc?

It is an interesting and informative read. I have book marked it.

To me it needs to have the headers of the sections in bold and the headers
of the paragraphs unbolded. Just a small point.

Thanks for writing it.

[Andy Burns]

I got the impression that you might be trying to send mail for your
domain via the plusnet mail server

That's how I read it too ...

[Theo]

Post by Andy Burns

I got the impression that you might be trying to send mail for your
domain via the plusnet mail server

That's how I read it too ...

Me too.

The general rule of thumb is that email should go out by the same provider
that it comes in, ie if you host example.com at XYZ Hosting, you should
send mail that claims to be from ***@example.com via XYZ Hosting. XYZ
Hosting should take care of the necessary SPF/etc to make this possible
(although check their control panel in case it's a setting you need to
enable).

Most mail clients can accept settings for an SMTP server per account. Some
older ones can't, so unfortunately they aren't suitable for modern use.[*]

Theo

[*] You could I suppose run a local smarthost on a RPi or something whose
job it is to accept messages from your old client and work out which
upstream server to send the messages to. That is left as a DIY for the
reader.

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by Theo

Post by Andy Burns

I got the impression that you might be trying to send mail for your
domain via the plusnet mail server

That's how I read it too ...

Me too.
The general rule of thumb is that email should go out by the same provider
that it comes in, ie if you host example.com at XYZ Hosting, you should
Hosting should take care of the necessary SPF/etc to make this possible
(although check their control panel in case it's a setting you need to
enable).
Most mail clients can accept settings for an SMTP server per account. Some
older ones can't, so unfortunately they aren't suitable for modern use.[*]
Theo
[*] You could I suppose run a local smarthost on a RPi or something whose
job it is to accept messages from your old client and work out which
upstream server to send the messages to. That is left as a DIY for the
reader.

I have to say this is beyond me, I said:

"Any clues on where the error might be occurring based on:

My ISP is PlusNet.
I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet (I have no idea how that
works)
I use em Client which has recently been upgraded.

It went successfully using my outlook.com address from the same email
client, where do I start looking first?"

I suspect "I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet (I have no idea
how that works)" is causing confusion, my ISP is PlusNet so that's how I
get on to the Internet, the details in my email program are the Heart
Internet details. Seems I am connecting to my domain server via my PlusNet
connection?

Anyway it works now!

[Andy Burns]

Post by Jeff Gaines
I suspect "I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet (I have no idea
how that works)" is causing confusion

I think the actual confusion is from "sending emails from my own domain
address but via my ISP's server" which to me implies relay.plus.net

Post by Jeff Gaines
Anyway it works now!

I thought you sorted it a while back by moving away from Heart?

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines
I suspect "I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet (I have no idea
how that works)" is causing confusion

I think the actual confusion is from "sending emails from my own domain
address but via my ISP's server" which to me implies relay.plus.net

Post by Jeff Gaines
Anyway it works now!

I thought you sorted it a while back by moving away from Heart?

That failed because Mythic Beasts expected me to update MX records and
that's not for me. If there was a way to transfer by getting a PIC or MAC
or whatever I would consider it but I have a spread of email accounts so
one will usually work!

[Theo]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines
I suspect "I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet (I have no idea
how that works)" is causing confusion

I think the actual confusion is from "sending emails from my own domain
address but via my ISP's server" which to me implies relay.plus.net

Post by Jeff Gaines
Anyway it works now!

I thought you sorted it a while back by moving away from Heart?

That failed because Mythic Beasts expected me to update MX records and
that's not for me. If there was a way to transfer by getting a PIC or MAC
or whatever I would consider it but I have a spread of email accounts so
one will usually work!

It sounds like you moved the hosting but you didn't move the domain
registration. If you move the domain to Mythic Beasts as well, they can
handle the DNS for you. If you don't move the domain, you have to edit the
DNS yourself (either adding DNS records like MXes manually, or changing the
DNS servers wholesale to point to Mythic's DNS server).

There's no 'one touch switch' processes for domains, you're expect to know
what you're doing. The best you can do is move the domain registration (at
which point everything will stop working, temporarily) and then ask the new
host to set everything up their way. That does not include transferring
across old websites or email boxes unless you specifically ask them to.

Theo

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by Theo

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines
I suspect "I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet (I have no idea
how that works)" is causing confusion

I think the actual confusion is from "sending emails from my own domain
address but via my ISP's server" which to me implies relay.plus.net

Post by Jeff Gaines
Anyway it works now!

I thought you sorted it a while back by moving away from Heart?

That failed because Mythic Beasts expected me to update MX records and
that's not for me. If there was a way to transfer by getting a PIC or MAC
or whatever I would consider it but I have a spread of email accounts so
one will usually work!

It sounds like you moved the hosting but you didn't move the domain
registration. If you move the domain to Mythic Beasts as well, they can
handle the DNS for you. If you don't move the domain, you have to edit the
DNS yourself (either adding DNS records like MXes manually, or changing the
DNS servers wholesale to point to Mythic's DNS server).
There's no 'one touch switch' processes for domains, you're expect to know
what you're doing. The best you can do is move the domain registration (at
which point everything will stop working, temporarily) and then ask the new
host to set everything up their way. That does not include transferring
across old websites or email boxes unless you specifically ask them to.
Theo

I already had a domain hosted with Mythic Beasts which I had transferred
from Heart, Mythic Beasts set everything up so I didn't have to do or know
anything. I think when I went to transfer anther domain they suggested
just adding it to the existing hosting but I would have had to update all
the records, don't know, didn't get anywhere so in the end just left it.
Perhaps I should have set up a second account.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Jeff Gaines
I already had a domain hosted with Mythic Beasts which I had transferred
from Heart

Previously Heart got gobbled up by GoDaddy (as part of Host Europe) but
now they seem to have become part of <https://your.online> which,
perhaps worryingly, seems to be offline ...

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Jeff Gaines
I already had a domain hosted with Mythic Beasts which I had transferred
from Heart

Previously Heart got gobbled up by GoDaddy (as part of Host Europe) but
now they seem to have become part of <https://your.online> which, perhaps
worryingly, seems to be offline ...

:-)

[wasbit]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Theo

Post by Andy Burns

I got the impression that you might be trying to send mail for your
domain via the plusnet mail server

That's how I read it too ...

Me too.
The general rule of thumb is that email should go out by the same provider
that it comes in, ie if you host example.com at XYZ Hosting, you should
Hosting should take care of the necessary SPF/etc to make this possible
(although check their control panel in case it's a setting you need to
enable).
Most mail clients can accept settings for an SMTP server per account.
Some
older ones can't, so unfortunately they aren't suitable for modern use.[*]
Theo
[*] You could I suppose run a local smarthost on a RPi or something whose
job it is to accept messages from your old client and work out which
upstream server to send the messages to.  That is left as a DIY for the
reader.

My ISP is PlusNet.
I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet (I have no idea how that
works)
I use em Client which has recently been upgraded.
It went successfully using my outlook.com address from the same email
client, where do I start looking first?"
I suspect "I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet (I have no idea
how that works)" is causing confusion, my ISP is PlusNet so that's how I
get on to the Internet, the details in my email program are the Heart
Internet details. Seems I am connecting to my domain server via my
PlusNet connection?
Anyway it works now!

I used EM Client for a couple of email addresses for several years. It's
free for 2 addresses. Don't need calendar, chat etc.
When Microsoft updated their authentication EM had to update their
client & the emails failed.
Luckily I managed to get the emails to authenticate with another client.
Can't remember which but I can look it up if needed. I should also say
that these previously working emails wouldn't authenticate with
Thunderbird, Betterbird or several other clients that I tried.
Several months later I tried EM Client again & the addresses authenticated.
- https://www.emclient.com/

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by wasbit

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Theo

Post by Andy Burns

I got the impression that you might be trying to send mail for your
domain via the plusnet mail server

That's how I read it too ...

Me too.
The general rule of thumb is that email should go out by the same provider
that it comes in, ie if you host example.com at XYZ Hosting, you should
Hosting should take care of the necessary SPF/etc to make this possible
(although check their control panel in case it's a setting you need to
enable).
Most mail clients can accept settings for an SMTP server per account.
Some
older ones can't, so unfortunately they aren't suitable for modern use.[*]
Theo
[*] You could I suppose run a local smarthost on a RPi or something whose
job it is to accept messages from your old client and work out which
upstream server to send the messages to.  That is left as a DIY for the
reader.

My ISP is PlusNet.
I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet (I have no idea how that
works)
I use em Client which has recently been upgraded.
It went successfully using my outlook.com address from the same email
client, where do I start looking first?"
I suspect "I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet (I have no idea
how that works)" is causing confusion, my ISP is PlusNet so that's how I
get on to the Internet, the details in my email program are the Heart
Internet details. Seems I am connecting to my domain server via my
PlusNet connection?
Anyway it works now!

I used EM Client for a couple of email addresses for several years. It's
free for 2 addresses. Don't need calendar, chat etc.
When Microsoft updated their authentication EM had to update their client
& the emails failed.
Luckily I managed to get the emails to authenticate with another client.
Can't remember which but I can look it up if needed. I should also say
that these previously working emails wouldn't authenticate with
Thunderbird, Betterbird or several other clients that I tried.
Several months later I tried EM Client again & the addresses authenticated.
- https://www.emclient.com/

eM Client does keep up to date BUT sometimes only via a new version so
there is a cost depending on how many email accounts you need. At the last
update (v10) they introduced a personal licence covering 3 x computers
which seemed a good deal.

In respect of authentication I have closed all my Yahoo accounts, they
changed their process so frequently nobody could keep up.

The only issue I have with MSFT (outlook.com) is they demand
re-authentication on my Android devices every three months which is a pain
as I use long password safe produced passwords and re-entering that is a
killer!

So far Gmail seems OK...

[John Rumm]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by wasbit

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Theo

Post by Andy Burns

I got the impression that you might be trying to send mail for your
domain via the plusnet mail server

That's how I read it too ...

Me too.
The general rule of thumb is that email should go out by the same provider
that it comes in, ie if you host example.com at XYZ Hosting, you should
Hosting should take care of the necessary SPF/etc to make this possible
(although check their control panel in case it's a setting you need to
enable).
Most mail clients can accept settings for an SMTP server per
account. Some
older ones can't, so unfortunately they aren't suitable for modern use.[*]
Theo
[*] You could I suppose run a local smarthost on a RPi or something whose
job it is to accept messages from your old client and work out which
upstream server to send the messages to.  That is left as a DIY for the
reader.

My ISP is PlusNet.
I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet (I have no idea how
that works)
I use em Client which has recently been upgraded.
It went successfully using my outlook.com address from the same email
client, where do I start looking first?"
I suspect "I am sending it via my own domain via PlusNet (I have no
idea how that works)" is causing confusion, my ISP is PlusNet so
that's how I get on to the Internet, the details in my email program
are the Heart Internet details. Seems I am connecting to my domain
server via my PlusNet connection?
Anyway it works now!

I used EM Client for a couple of email addresses for several years.
It's free for 2 addresses. Don't need calendar, chat etc.
When Microsoft updated their authentication EM had to update their
client & the emails failed.
Luckily I managed to get the emails to authenticate with another
client. Can't remember which but I can look it up if needed. I should
also say that these previously working emails wouldn't authenticate
with Thunderbird, Betterbird or several other clients that I tried.
Several months later I tried EM Client again & the addresses
authenticated.
- https://www.emclient.com/

eM Client does keep up to date BUT sometimes only via a new version so
there is a cost depending on how many email accounts you need. At the
last update (v10) they introduced a personal licence covering 3 x
computers which seemed a good deal.
In respect of authentication I have closed all my Yahoo accounts, they
changed their process so frequently nobody could keep up.
The only issue I have with MSFT (outlook.com) is they demand re-
authentication on my Android devices every three months which is a pain
as I use long password safe produced passwords and re-entering that is a
killer!

You should be able to setup 2FA for authentication to save re-entering
the password.

Post by Jeff Gaines
So far Gmail seems OK...

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by Jeff Gaines
The only issue I have with MSFT (outlook.com) is they demand re-
authentication on my Android devices every three months which is a pain
as I use long password safe produced passwords and re-entering that is a
killer!

You should be able to setup 2FA for authentication to save re-entering the
password.

I am limited by what the Android device allows, I'd better get used to it
Windows is getting more and more like it :-(

[Pancho]

Post by Jeff Gaines
However from following your advice it seems I have no SPF record so I
followed Heart's instructions which say "Log in to your Domain Control
Panel and navigate to ‘DNS Management’.
There is no "DNS Management" to navigate to!
I will raise a ticket with them. Their admin is appalling but when I
tried to move away it seemed I had to set up my own records at Mythic
Beasts and that was way beyond me.

It's not that difficult. A painting by numbers task. rather than
requiring you to know what you are doing.